Our bodies change so much throughout pregnancy, birth, and motherhood. As we move through the postpartum period our bodies start to recover from birth and we’re left looking different than we had before. It’s hard to process and add postpartum hair loss on top of it, it can be a big hit to your confidence. That’s why we wanted to bring on Tarah Gatsi, hairstylist expert and owner of Ten Fifteen Beauty, to teach us all about postpartum hair loss and what we can do about it. We go over what’s normal, what’s not, and how you can maintain healthy hair and prioritize yourself.
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Tarah, owner of Ten Fifteen Beauty, has been styling hair and makeup, since her teens. Her ‘relaxed glam’ artistry style centers on her passion for celebrating individual beauty to envoke confidence, help people look and feel like their best selves. You’ll find Tarah gushing over colour wheels or studying current hair and beauty trends to infuse into the community.
When she isn’t in the salon, you’ll find Tarah working her magic on movie sets, photoshoots, and fashion shows. Training under beauty masters such as Jen Atkin, Sarah Connor, Lisa Vann, Geno Chapman, Angus Mitchell, and taking classes hosted by Joico, Kevin Murphy, Aveda, and Dermalogica, Tarah spends countless hours perfecting her craft and being top of the latest trends to bring her clients the best techniques available.
In This Episode We Talk About
00:20 – Who is Tarah?
01:24 – What is postpartum hair loss?
07:50 – the range of hair loss that can happen.
11:39 – What to do about postpartum hair loss.
14:33 – Olaplex, KEVIN.MURPHY, and other hair bonding products.
15:14 – What is a hair bond?
20:53 – Using vitamins to help your hair.
25:31 – What to look for in a hair stylist.
31:34 – How long will it take for hair growth to return?
33:43 – Where to find Tarah!
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Tarah’s Instagram @BeautyByTarahhGatsi
Ten Fifteen Beauty Instagram @TenFifteenBeauty
Ten Fifteen Beauty
Reclaiming your Hormone Health with Laura Martire
Read the Full Conversation
So nice to have you here! Tarah has been my hairstylist for quite a few years now, and I’m not going back! She just really sets herself apart by continual training and knowledge about all things hair. So really excited for her to share her knowledge with us. And so Tarah, tell us a little bit more about yourself.
Thank you Jannine. I’ve been a hairstylist my whole life; at 13 I scribbled in a little journal, “I’m running away from home, and I’m going to open a salon in Victoria.” So, you know, everything from that point on was just building on that. I did all of my education in high school, and at 17 started in the industry as a proper hairstylist. And I have just kept going through there. I opened my salon at 27, and it has been such a wild ride the last few years. But one thing that was great about COVID is it left me quite a lot of time to do a lot more research, which I really loved and hadn’t been able to do since I opened the salon.
Fantastic. And the salon is Ten Fifteen Beauty for any of the locals, definitely recommend checking it out. But to get into the postpartum hair loss conversation, let’s set a baseline. What exactly is postpartum hair loss? What causes it? Give us the rundown.
So postpartum hair loss is actually two things. A lot of people focus on the actual hair loss, which happens because of a hormonal shift. As soon as we have a shift in our hormones, that alters the way that our growth pattern works, and it alters how long we keep our hair and our growth cycle. Now a lot of people will notice that there’s alopecia, male or female pattern baldness. What’s different about this is it’s completely different in the amounts that you lose, and how suddenly it can come on, and that it doesn’t continue after a certain point. Once you go back to your static area of hair growth, that’s where you’ll usually stay.
The other thing that people don’t take into consideration is how we treat ourselves during pregnancy. You know, we’re taking all these prenatal vitamins, we’re eating well, we’re hopefully getting as much sleep as possible. And then very suddenly, we shift into our attention being completely on our babies. We’ve experienced a very traumatic – a lot of people, I should say – experience a very traumatic birth. And so now you’re going to focus less on yourself, less nutrition for yourself – as much as I know breastfeeding mothers, especially. try, we can’t say that we take care of ourselves the way we did before having children. And so we don’t maybe have enough protein in our diet, we maybe don’t have the same amount of iron, we don’t have maybe as much sleep going on. And that can also hugely affect your hair.
Alright, I’m already so happy that you mentioned the two different sides of it. Because I’ve never heard that mentioned before, it’s always so focused on the hormonal shift. But it makes a lot of sense that those other things play a big role in it, too. So let’s talk a little bit more about the hormonal shift. So my super basic understanding is that while you’re pregnant, there’s some sort of hormone that makes it so your hair doesn’t have its normal loss. And then after birth, it kind of kick starts and so it all falls out at the same time. Is that kind of how it works?
Yeah, so basically, let’s say, for example, your growth cycle is one year for your hair of active growth or whatever, just to make it simple. Instead of it falling out at one year, if you’re pregnant at that point, it might last you another year because you’re pregnant. So then all the follicles that are becoming active are also staying active, as opposed to going into their dormancy. So as soon as that hormone shift happened, we now are dropping the hairs that should have been dropped and going into dormancy. And sometimes instead of it being 30% of your hair, it’ll be 50 or 70% of your hair because you have maybe 180% of the hair that you would normally have in some cases, you know. And it’s important to know that these all vary, some people don’t notice that same shift in having their hair be a lot more dense or a lot of hair loss. And it could just be that your growth cycle was initially quite long. Or it could be that your hormone shift wasn’t as significant as someone else’s.
Mm hmm, that makes a lot of sense. So I do want to go into what are the kind of normal ranges for postpartum hair loss. But first, let’s dig in a bit more for that foundation for what a hair growth cycle is, just non-pregnancy, just a typical hair growth cycle and what that looks like.
Yeah, so most people, in both your body and on top of your head, when your hair grows, it basically goes into growing, and then it goes into dormancy, and then it becomes active again. And for most people, like they say with waxing, let’s say you get your arms waxed, the first three or four waxes, you’ll find that your hair comes back faster. And that’s just because different follicles activate at different times. One common misconception is people will say, for example, “this hair grows so fast right here, it’s always growing right here so fast.” Hair does not grow faster in one area than another. But you may find that just the way that your hair grows in that area, maybe it curls and becomes more prominent, or maybe because it comes much further, you don’t notice the hair growth up here the same way you do down there. But generally, it’s kind of widespread and sprinkled throughout that you’ll have active and inactive follicles at any time.
Okay, so hair’s kind of sprinkled into five different kinds of sections in a way that are scattered throughout, but they each have their own growth hair pattern.
Yeah, and they work together.
Yeah. And so it’ll shift and, say, once a month, it’ll shift to the next one that decides to go in the dormant stage. So it goes growth, dormant, and then growth again, and kind of keeps doing that?
Yeah, basically, while it’s dormant – and also the shedding art. So you go growth, shedding, dormant, growth, shedding, dormant. And for some people, they find that their hair won’t grow past a certain level, they can’t get it longer, it’s just fine and breaks off. Or it just looks – we’ve all seen those people who have their hair down to here, but you can see that there’s density here, but then just these little stragglers down here, and it’s wispy. And that’s common, that your growth cycle is just short and your hair isn’t able to maintain density at that length. But there are things you can do about that, like taking vitamins or using topical treatments that elongate your active cycle.
Okay, interesting. All right. So diving into the postpartum hair loss part, what is the typical range for people to expect and know “hey, you don’t need to panic, it is normal.” How long does it last? How much hair loss, that sort of thing.
So what is important to know is that there is no normal. You can have such a range and still be healthy, it’s important not to panic.
That might not help, and make more fall out.
It doesn’t help, but also you’re causing yourself stress that you don’t need to have because you didn’t notice your hair density growing often during pregnancy because it’s slow. But hair loss isn’t that slow a lot of the time. It’s not a lot of work to shed. And so let’s say you have really, really dense hair pre-pregnancy, you often will notice a bigger shed, because you already had so many active follicles at one time. And now you’ve multiplied them. I would say if there was something to watch out for, it’s looking for spots where you’re completely lost your hair, if you have any actual areas, circles, or lumps on your head. Those are things that you should be concerned about, because that could be alopecia as opposed to just natural hair loss that you would experience from having a baby or a hormone shift. But generally – and again, everybody’s different – a year after you’ve given birth if you’re still experiencing issues around hair loss, and not just it not regrowing, because a lot of people, especially around the perimeter of their hair, most people will say “it’s never coming back,” or “it’s just different.” And that’s totally normal. And you can use products for that, but it’s nothing to be alarmed by. I forgot where I was going with that.
To look out for bald spots.
Yeah, if you have bald spots. But hair takes a lot longer to grow, like I said, than to shed. So if a year from now you’re still experiencing clumping coming out, it might be important to look and have your hormones checked.
Mm hmm. Definitely. I know, for me, I had kind of back-to-back pregnancies, two under two, they’re 18 months apart. So I was kind of just starting to experience hair loss, and then I got pregnant again. And so when I had the actual full postpartum hair loss, it felt like so much was coming out. And it lasted about a full year.
I feel like if somebody has quite thin hair, a lot of the time, they don’t really notice it. It’s the clumps, I feel like, that we see coming out, right? Our hair brush.
When you’re washing your hair, and it just is coming out in clumps.
On the pillow after sleeping. Those are when we, I think, notice it the most. Another thing that contributes to how long you’ll experience hair loss for is whether or not you’re breastfeeding, and how quickly that shift is happening hormonally. Because I find that women who breastfeed up until two or later, a lot of the time the hair loss is a lot slower for them. Except, you know, the baby’s pulling your hair out in the back, I find that one is big for mothers who are breastfeeding later into their baby’s development.
That makes a lot of sense, because there’s a lot of hormone shifts that go with breastfeeding, too.
Okay, so I think we did a pretty good job covering exactly what postpartum hair loss is. So what can we do about it?
Well, there’s a lot of things that I like to recommend my clients do. One is stay on your prenatal vitamins, breastfeeding or not, you’ve experienced a lot, and your body for almost a full year has been completely focused on something else. So making sure that you’re now refilling all of those depleted resources, and making sure that you’re being generous with what you’re giving yourself. So making sure you have enough water, making sure that you have enough fatty oils in your diet, you know, I love to make a salad with lots of olive oil as the dressing. And then making sure that you are eating enough protein is a huge thing.
I always preach a lot about diet, but there are also a lot of great products. I work with KEVIN.MURPHY, and we use a product called BODY.MASS. They have a similar product called THICK.AGAIN, and the difference is in the scent, one of them is more masculine and one of them is more feminine. But what they do is they actually increase the active follicles, very similar to what you would experience during pregnancy. And it works as long as you’re using it. But if you go off of it, nothing is a long term solution, nothing has changed in your body. And so that’s more of a commitment and more accumulative.
There are other products that I’ve seen – again, I don’t like to speak to products that I haven’t used, I always like to recommend, go and speak to your hairstylist individually, they’re the only one who understands your hair, understands your lifestyle, can actually pinpoint what the problem is, and what the solution is. So it’s great if you hear something about a product from a friend, just take it back to your home hairstylist and just make sure that they really look into it for you and make sure the ingredients are healthy, that you don’t have any allergies. Because if you take certain products to your scalp that you’re allergic to, you’re going to experience hair loss.
Yeah, and everyone’s hair and body is so different, like thicker hair, thinner hair, different kinds of challenges. And so when we’re getting information passed on to us from social media or friends, it might not necessarily apply to us, so I think it’s a good idea to talk to your hair professional, for sure.
Particularly anything that is for strengthening or hair regrowth, it’s important that you look at the ingredients and think “is it targeting somebody who’s bleached their hair out and lost it from that, or is it a hormonal shift that they’re trying to remedy?” Because sometimes I’ll find people who are trying to cure postpartum hair loss with something like Olaplex. But Olaplex is a bond rebuilder, and can damage your hair if overused or if you don’t have the problem that it’s trying to solve.
Okay, so let’s dig into that one a bit more. Because I do think Olaplex is talked about a lot on social media as kind of like a cure-all for getting that really nice hair. But I’ve also seen, like we had mentioned a bit before we started, is it causes hair loss and breakage for some people. So how does that work? Because it is good in some cases, but not in others.
So again, this is the same, I would never tell you to go to the pharmacy and prescribe yourself some medications. These products are similar to medications, they’re very, very strong and they’re very effective. Now Olaplex works to, like I said, rebuild the bond in your hair.
What is the bond in your hair, what does that mean?
So your hair is made up of a whole bunch of chains put together. When we color our hair, those chains put together actually break. So rebonding agents help put them back together and seal them in so that your structure is together. When you’re lightening your hair, you’re poking holes throughout and letting that light pass through. And so whenever you’re highlighting, and you’ve poked all these holes through, let’s say you get to super white – everyone was obsessed with white hair for a long time. When you get to that point, you have now removed all of the cortex of your hair, everything that keeps it together. And so it’s really crucial in that specific situation that you’re using a bond rebuilder, and using it as prescribed. If you’re told to use it once a week, you use it once a week. If you’re told to use it three times a week, you use it that much. What’s great about buying salon products is that you have somebody who’s trained in these products to be able to tell you what you should or shouldn’t be doing, and how to use them. But also, if something goes awry, they’re able to find out why and how you can resolve that. With a lot of these products, they have a lot of protein in them. But you might actually be needing more hydration. So just, for example, I had somebody reach out to me and they were really upset. They had been using Olaplex for two years, and suddenly they were losing their hair in big clumps. It’s all over their pillow. And their husband made a comment about it. And that was the end for them. Like, “if my husband notices, it’s real.”
Yeah, if he is noticing something with my hair, it’s happening.
So I kind of was digging with her and I said, “well, what’s different? What have you done differently? Have you colored your hair? Are you using it more?” And we came to realize that when she started using it, she was highlighting her hair very much, she was very blonde. And as time has gone on, she had a baby, less appointments to the salon, less blonde, and her hair doesn’t have the damage that it would need to actually utilize that product in a safe and healthy way.
This ends at 17:40 and at 18:12 convo resumes
Time stamps from here onward are going to need to be adjusted, I just left them with the original time markers from the whole video
So with Olaplex, it can be very useful in some cases with lightening hair, but when you have darker hair, and you’re not lightening it, it can be too much protein. So what happens from there?
So what happens is your hair will become brittle and it will actually break rather than – it gets so strong that it’s not able to move. And I think about it similar to a willow tree. You often see willow trees blowing in the wind, and they’re just so soft, and they move so well. But then you see, let’s say a pine tree, and there’s a big storm and all of its branches are all over the ground, because it’s so firm that it can’t handle any movement. And that’s what happens when you over-proteinize your hair.
That makes a lot of sense. So another product that I’ve heard very recommended for postpartum hair loss, I’m curious about your personal thoughts on it. I don’t think it’s something you use because I know you use Kevin Murphy, but that’s Bondi Boost.
Yes. So again, I always urge people to speak directly to their hairstylist because it may be what’s best for you or it may not be what’s best for you. They have some products that have ingredients to help soothe and detox the scalp, which would in turn reduce inflammation, which is one of the leading causes of hair loss. It also is heavy in biotin and other ingredients that are really great vitamins. I think if you’re going to use it, it’s important that you look into the ingredients and make sure you’re not allergic. It does contain fragrance.
Fragrance can be a tricky one that can be very agitating for some. So it’s good to look out for that in a lot of different products.
Yes. But something that I did see that I liked was that it had aloe vera in it, which is really nice and soothing. It had tea tree oil, which helps to reduce inflammation and detoxify. I always prefer, if you’re going to take vitamins, take them through your mouth. I think it’s great to have things topically, but the absorption rate is not going to be the same. And if you’re having problems where let’s say you do need more biotin, you need more vitamin A, vitamin B, iron. It’s in your whole body, and it’s just reflected in your hair. So you should be working from the inside out.
20:53 Absolutely. And that’s with so many things that comes with health. And I think there is a bit of a cultural shift where previously it’s very strong, like the quick Band Aid fixes, the topical things to make things okay in the moment, but we really got to dig deeper to the root and kind of inside out to kind of cure things. But it does sound like Bondi Boost could be an okay product to try, and to talk to your hairstylist about it. Where are good foods to get those vitamins like biotin, and things like that?
Yeah, so I always say, I tend to be very much about making sure you’re getting the right fats in your diet, because I think that’s something that a lot of people for a long time have been really opposed to. But whether it’s avocado, or making your olive oil dressings, or grapeseed, oil, anything like that, I think that that’s the number one thing I notice is people with really a lot of dandruff or a lot of skin issues. They’re not getting enough fatty acid in their diet, and their body is not able to produce the oils it needs to sustain itself.
That makes sense.
Yeah. Another thing that a lot of people I’m noticing are struggling with right now is that being vegan, being vegetarian is really on trend. We’re a vegan salon, so I am in full support of this. But it’s really important to remember that a lot of chips are vegan. There’s a lot of options that are vegan that are not going to do anything good for your body. So making sure that you’re seeing a rainbow reflected in your plate, you want to see all different colors, you want to be making sure that you’re getting different nutrients, like maybe tomatoes for iron, and you know, broccoli for protein, and all of that. Just making sure that you’re really – you can’t be picky with food,
And the protein’s a big one for everyone. In a recent interview we did with Laura, who’s a holistic nutritionist, she surprised me. I think we’re supposed to have like 20 to 26 grams of protein each meal. And I’m definitely not doing that. Since we had that interview I’m working towards that, and really trying to prioritize the protein and healthy fats. And just in the last few weeks, I have noticed a difference in terms of energy levels and mood stabilizing. So it can be tricky to get into the habit of, but it really does make a big difference when you’re focusing on those healthy fats and protein.
And I think a lot of people don’t realize that your skin and your hair is the first indication of an issue internally, that’s one of the ways our body communicates. So if you’re having a lot of dry skin, if your lips are chapped, you’re probably dehydrated. And you might not feel dehydrated until much later, but there’s a good indication. And the same goes with protein. If your hair is falling flat and limp and seems very fine, it’s probably that you’re not getting enough protein in your diet.
Mm hmm. Lots of good things to think about. I think we’ve done a pretty good job kind of covering different solutions. Is there anything you’d like to add or any particular ingredients we should look out for when choosing products to help with that?
I think the number one thing is just looking into things, cleaner is better. Talking to – I think the number one thing that I can’t say enough is talk to your hairstylist, talk to a professional. People at Sephora are not trained at hairstyling and don’t understand scientifically what’s taking place. And also don’t have your background, I had mentioned to you before we started the interview. I pride myself on really getting to know what lifestyle my clients have, what’s happening at home. What could be causing this? Is it diet? Or are you pulling your hair out from stress, for example. That happens a lot to mothers especially. So just really making sure that you’re speaking to somebody who can talk to your situation uniquely, and not taking advice from – while it’s really great that we have this online community that people can post, “oh, I used this product, and it was great.” Remembering that you’re not that person, your body chemistry is not the same as that person and your hair may not be the same as that person.
25:31 Absolutely. And what are good things to look out for a good hairstylist, because I’ve seen that pop up kind of in Mom Truth Mondays and things. They don’t like going to the salon, or it really seemed to come through that they haven’t found the right person. So do you have any tips for how you can identify the right person that is knowledgeable to help you both have a great haircut and approach that whole side of things with you?
So for me, personally, I think we have so many talented artists in the city. I fangirl over a whole bunch of people here in Victoria. But I think it’s about finding your person. It’s really just like dating, right? You go on dates. So think about booking some consultations and actually act like you’re interviewing somebody you’re going to hire, because that’s what you’re doing. Ask them questions that pertain to your personal interest, make sure that their style – if they’ve posted a whole bunch of really natural looking colors, but you want like blue and purple, that might not be your hairstylist.
And just kind of go into it with the idea that you’re hiring a person and you want to make sure that it’s the right fit. What is their lifestyle, what are their interests, are they about the same things. I personally am a holistic hairstylist, I call it. We are a holistic salon. If something’s wrong with your hair, but it’s in your diet, I’m going to share with you what my opinion is on that and try and give you that information. But I’ve definitely had clients who don’t want to hear that, they’re like, “give me the quick fix. I’m out of here, I’ll spend the money on the $100 product, but I’m not gonna change my diet or whatever.” And so if you approach it like dating, and you’re willing to just say like, “maybe we should see other people,” that’s how you’ll get the best results.
Yeah, and I like that you mentioned the consultations, because I think that’s something not everyone might know is available. And just on the fact if they’re available or not, can be a good indicator for the kind of education level of the stylists that you are speaking with. If they’re not offering consultations, they are probably more of the quick in-and-out, get the look and get you out, and might not have that same training and knowledge to really dig into things with you, teach how you can style your hair, how to have a good diet to help your hair health.
And also being realistic. One of my sisters – we’ve broken up, she’s not my client anymore. She wants things that are not in line with what I like to do. So she’ll be like, “tomorrow, I want to bleach out the whole front of my hair, but I’ve been box dyeing it black for a few months.” So if that’s what you want, then you’re probably not going to want to see somebody like me. Or if you like to – I find a lot of people will spur of the moment, and I do this too with tattoos or with piercings, I’ll be like, “I need to go tomorrow, or right now.” But just being aware that the type of clients who do that are not going to be able to get the same quality of a hairstylist, because if they’re really, really good, and they’ve been studying for a long time, and they have lots of experience. They like paying their bills? Probably. They’re probably at a point in their life where they can do that. Most of my favourite hair stylists are booked till March right now. So yeah, having a plan and being patient is important.
And you get what you pay for. I think with moms, I know I went through it, hair is something that’s not at the top of the to-do list. But you know what, if you’re getting in for a hair appointment once a year, build it up to two times a year. But you deserve to have a really good experience for that. Being in a salon you’re comfortable with, in the chair of someone you enjoy chatting with, and actually like the experience, and then get the good hair and the good feeling and all the stuff that comes from that. But you deserve that. I know a lot of people put kind of road blocks, saying like, “oh, it’s the money,” things like that. You know what? If you’re only getting your hair done once or twice a year, you guys can make it work.
Yeah. And I think a lot of the time as moms we were like, “oh, well I can’t afford to buy this great shampoo, that’s gonna make my hair styling a lot easier afterwards,” or “I don’t want to spend money on color.” There’s all these reasons. But at the end of the day, you’re also going to be the type of person who’s going to do literally anything for your husband or your partner, or your child. And if the roles were reversed, and your partner was like, “I’m going to go spend $200 on this,” it’s pretty common that a lot of women would support that. And so we just need to change the way that we view taking care of ourselves, because it’s not just about the way your hair looks. For a lot of my clients, it’s the one moment in months that is just about them.
Exactly. That’s what I really like about coming to see you. I live out in Sooke, for reference, for those that are local. Tarah’s salon is out in Fairfield, and oftentimes, my childcare for it is out at the ferries. And to make it work, I am easily driving three hours that day, in addition to the hours at the salon, but I see the value in it. It’s worth it to have that time where I’m me, I’m not a mom. There’s no kids. I’m not having to be attentive to anyone else, we can chat, we can grab a snack. It’s you time.
Yeah. And I think that that is, in itself, even if we didn’t do any hair, if you just got to come and sit and somebody was just touching you, maybe giving you a head massage, whatever. It is just so important.
31:34 Mm hmm. Definitely. I do want to touch on one quick thing before we close off because you did mention expectations and add a bit of a light bulb for a question. And that would be what is good expectations we can have for kind of the growing out of the postpartum hair loss. So having those stubborn wispies, we’re working on our diet, we’ve got some good products recommended to us. What is a good expectation for getting those things grown out?
So however long your hair is, is going to decide how long it takes for you to have them. But I find that the worst of it is the first six months, because once your hair reaches about here, you can usually blow dry it, hide it, flat iron it, pin it, whatever. But if you have really long hair, it might take a year or two years. For yourself, not so long.
Yeah, ‘cause mine’s shorter.
Yes. And you can just kind of integrate like what’s bangs, like “maybe these little ones will go with the bangs, and maybe these ones will look like texture.” If you have curly hair, it can be a lot more, trying to keep them down can be a lot more difficult. The product EASY.RIDER is one of my favorites for my curly girls who have those little short pieces, and also grey’s, which when they come in, they want to stick straight up. So I use EASY.RIDER for those guys and just kind of smooth them down. Put them into place and within, you know, six months to a year, you should kind of forget that they’re there.
Okay, six months to a year. Motherhood is a long haul, that’s doable.
Well, I mean, for people with multiple kids, you’re probably on to having another. But toques are great!
Yes, toques are great, we live in Canada. Time out your pregnancy so you can just wear a toque for a few months.
Well, thank you so much. I think that was really jam packed with information. Is there anything else you would like to add?
No, that’s all!
Yeah, I think we did a good job covering everything. So where can people find you if they want to reach out?
Perfect! And her salon is full of just amazing people that are fun to be around and good at what they do. And if you’re not someone who’s wanting to go into the salon a bunch but are interested in the products, she does offer pickup service as well. So I’ll just add that extra shout out for you, because I seriously love what you do.
They can also do online consultation for products if they want to learn about them.
Oh, perfect. So that’s really good to know, too. So if you’re struggling with postpartum hair loss, you’re local. You can just do an online thing and you don’t even have to go in, which is great.
Well, thank you so much for taking the time to chat with us, Tarah, and thank you to all of you who have tuned in today for this week’s episode. You can bring your thoughts inside the Facebook group and the group chat and we can dig into things a little bit more, and we will chat with you next week. Bye!
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